Ever wondered what goes on inside the courtroom when high-profile legal battles unfold? This episode takes you on a riveting journey through the latest courtroom escapades where former President Trump's own attorney, Todd Blanch, throws caution to the wind and reads Michael Cohen's unflattering tweets for all to hear. It's a moment that blurs the line between legal proceeding and political theater, with "Donald Von Schitzenpants" making its way into official transcripts and leaving us questioning where the lawyer's true loyalties lie.
The courtroom drama is just the tip of the iceberg, as we navigate the complex web of motivations and ethical dilemmas facing attorneys who dare to dance with the devil. We scrutinize Blanch's potential aspirations for a future in a Trump-dominated political landscape and the implications such ambitions may have on the integrity of our legal system. It's a chess game of loyalty, strategy, and "low bono" work, where the pieces move in shadows cast by super PAC money and the allure of power.
Finally, we put the spotlight on the testimony of a banker named Pharaoh, whose revelations peel away the layers of secrecy surrounding the financial maneuvers of Trump's inner circle. We don't stop there; we analyze the roles of Dylan Howard and Keith Davidson in the hush-money scandals that rocked the 2016 presidential campaign. Join us as we examine the ethical quagmires and the potential impact these backroom deals had on American democracy. It's an episode that promises to leave you enlightened, entertained, and perhaps a little incredulous.
Ever wondered what goes on inside the courtroom when high-profile legal battles unfold? This episode takes you on a riveting journey through the latest courtroom escapades where former President Trump's own attorney, Todd Blanch, throws caution to the wind and reads Michael Cohen's unflattering tweets for all to hear. It's a moment that blurs the line between legal proceeding and political theater, with "Donald Von Schitzenpants" making its way into official transcripts and leaving us questioning where the lawyer's true loyalties lie.
The courtroom drama is just the tip of the iceberg, as we navigate the complex web of motivations and ethical dilemmas facing attorneys who dare to dance with the devil. We scrutinize Blanch's potential aspirations for a future in a Trump-dominated political landscape and the implications such ambitions may have on the integrity of our legal system. It's a chess game of loyalty, strategy, and "low bono" work, where the pieces move in shadows cast by super PAC money and the allure of power.
Finally, we put the spotlight on the testimony of a banker named Pharaoh, whose revelations peel away the layers of secrecy surrounding the financial maneuvers of Trump's inner circle. We don't stop there; we analyze the roles of Dylan Howard and Keith Davidson in the hush-money scandals that rocked the 2016 presidential campaign. Join us as we examine the ethical quagmires and the potential impact these backroom deals had on American democracy. It's an episode that promises to leave you enlightened, entertained, and perhaps a little incredulous.
Tal was taking a shot and you're listening to the Pardon the Interaction podcast and no, she wasn't taking a shot at anyone's dog, she was taking a shot of alcohol. We don't shoot dogs on this podcast, at least not in the face, and especially if they're not good dogs, uh. But before we get to that, make sure you check out sheetsandkigglescom for some of the most delightfully soft and luxurious sheets on planet earth. Um, you know, if you do happen to shoot your dog in the face with some sheets, you can at least bury them in in some sheets from sheets and giggles. So, as per the usual, of course, you know it was a wacky, insane week. The insanity never stops.
Speaker 1:
Somehow trump manages to suck up all of the oxygen out of the room, and that's without him even being in the white house, somehow. So imagine what a second term would be like. I know you guys don't want that, so make sure we don't let that happen. Go ahead and hit that Joe Biden button in November. But so, first of all, earlier last week, during a hearing on Trump's gag order violations, trump attorney Todd Blanch argued that Trump should be able to defend himself from perceived attacks, even if they're made by witnesses in the case. He then shared a series of taunting tweets from Michael Cohen, including one that employed Cohen's nickname for Trump, donald Von Schitzenpants, and this was a post that Blanche read aloud.
Speaker 3:
Tell us how you really feel. Post that Blanche read aloud.
Speaker 1:
Tell us how you really feel there was also another post that was included that included a Photoshop picture of Trump as a chubby superhero named Super Victim, to which the occupants of the courtroom laughed vociferously. I just thought this was kind of funny because I can only imagine how much your lawyers must hate you if they want to enter evidence into the record. And the evidence is someone else calling you donald von shits and pants. Like that's incredible, like what? What do you think todd blanchard's opinion of trump must be at that point?
Speaker 2:
like what? No, exactly like what the hell was he? Was he thinking like definitely not a win for trump, but no, it's. I mean.
Speaker 1:
Well, I I read that he hasn't been paid, so maybe that's the reason all right, I don't know the the nest like the, the details of the payment arrangements between trump and todd blanche, but we all know like everyone makes fun of trump's attorneys because half of them typically don't get paid. But in this case I do believe the super PAC Trump Save America is funding a significant portion of Trump's legal defense. So Blanche has got to he's got to be getting some money out of that right. There's no chance he's getting no money. Maybe he's not being.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm just like we're in the middle of a trial.
Speaker 3:
Like what are they doing it for all the glory? Or maybe they've been promised some like horrible position in the next.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure the reason why Blanche is doing it, yeah, the reason why Blanche is doing this is likely because he wants to get an appointment in the Trump administration. I would imagine he's aiming for, you know, the Southern District of New York a USA position, I'm guessing, because, really, look, I don't know Todd Blanche personally, but from what I hear about other lawyers who've worked with him in the past, they say he was not like this.
Speaker 3:
And he'll get along really well with Attorney General Alina Haba. He'll get along really well with Attorney General Alina Haba Exactly.
Speaker 1:
But no, they said he's a good lawyer and he's a decent trial lawyer and he seemed like a you know, a reasonably decent person. So for him to take this kind of turn, like it has to be personal aspirations of what he might get in a second Trump term. But like, if you work for Trump and you know him well, at that point why, like as a lawyer anyway, why would you want to work in his administration? I mean, I guess that way you could avoid being programmed.
Speaker 2:
But Well, cause the government would pay you. So cause you don't have to worry about Trump not paying you If you're not sure, if you want to make money the last thing you want to do is be a lawyer for the Department of Justice.
Speaker 1:
Like private practice pays so much more money. Speaking of which, you know how they were talking about the lawyer. That was his position as a special counsel for the DA's office in Georgia. Like it's, he's not it's not underpaying, but compared to what he could have made in private practice. Like there's a, there's a term for it.
Speaker 2:
Like it's a joke, they call it Not pro bono, but low bono well, the thing is he's also a judge and he's been in private practice for a while and the money was not going like directly into his pocket, it was going to his firm, where you have like yes, paralegals and all the other people on the staff like other attorneys, etc the point I was making is like going to work for the government.
Speaker 1:
It just doesn't pay great for a lawyer who could be, you know, practicing and he wasn't her first choice, and that's they seem to want to gloss over.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, it's just everybody else is like nah, bro, I know, this is like this is clearly a soft spot for you, dude.
Speaker 1:
I'm sorry, I'm sorry if I'm reopening raw wounds. But yes, we were all disturbed by what happened in georgia. But no, I I don't know what blanche's problem is, but clearly this was a passive, aggressive move on his part to throw shade at trump. But I totally understand. If I was trump's lawyer and I had to represent him dutifully, I would be taking shots like this, uh, every opportunity. Because, fuck that guy. I mean he's falling asleep in court. He's doing insane shit. He's attacking witnesses, he's saying shit about the judge, he's saying shit about the jury.
Speaker 2:
He's saying shit about he's farting on you, he's farting on you.
Speaker 1:
Sharting in court Like just a total fucking clown show. If I had to be Trump's lawyer, I would probably shoot myself in the face like I'm Cricket.
Speaker 3:
But he didn't have to be. He chose this for himself.
Speaker 1:
That is true, well, unless they're all being blackmailed into doing it to some degree once you also put that past them well, once they got the trial, like he really doesn't have a choice, like the judge isn't going to let him off the case, but, yes, point made, um?
Speaker 1:
So thursday, after the ending or after the end of the court proceedings, trump made some public comments outside of the courtroom and it appeared to be a bid for ineffective assistance of counsel. And on Friday, judge Merchan said at the start of the proceedings of the case that he wanted to clear up some misperceptions about Trump's gag order and he said, quote I want to stress, mr Trump, that you have an absolute right to testify at trial, just as you have the absolute right not to testify. Merchan then also noted that the gag order only applies to statements made outside of court, not his ability to testify in the trial. And Trump was also asked about the testimony of Keith Davidson after court on Thursday and he responded, quote Well, I'm not allowed to testify, I'm under a gag order. I guess and this is why he was looking at his lawyer, todd Blanch, and then Todd Blanch, insane person that he is nodded in the affirmative. So there were a couple. You just can't.
Speaker 3:
Even his lawyers can't say no to him, even though it's his election of duty to not be forthright about that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so one of the things that could potentially happen.
Speaker 3:
Unless they have an arrangement about what should be said during press conferences.
Speaker 1:
I mean, who knows what kind of agreement they have under the table. But Blanche looks extraordinarily unhappy when Trump's outside of the courtroom making these comments, and I totally understand, like it's a clown show. But just because Trump says something insane, it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. And in this case, the comments that Trump made about the gag order preventing him from being able to testify were total bullshit. Not only were they bullshit, blanche agreeing with him opens up the possibility for the verdict to be overturned, should Trump be found guilty. Overturned, should trump be found guilty because, uh, obviously that would be a you know a lawyer lying straight up and giving bad advice to his client, which will open him up to arguments for ineffective assistance of counsel maybe it's this up, maybe it's deliberate.
Speaker 3:
He's gonna fall on his sword for his appointment and it's not gonna matter if he's been disbarred in the next administration oh yeah, I mean it definitely can open him up to sanctions.
Speaker 1:
I would imagine there's going to eventually be some kind of hearing on that, regardless of the fact that the judge cleaned it up afterwards. But I'm glad the judge was prescient enough, um to take that event into consideration and address it the very next morning before we proceeded any further into the trial, because the way this trial is going, trump is fucking doomed right. It's been a total disaster for the defense so far. Now I know a number of other news outlets might give you a different interpretation of the events, such as, like Fox doesn't even count, but CNN has taken a position that you know the defense has been doing fairly well and I totally disagree for a number of reasons that we'll get to momentarily. But this has been going poorly. But this has been going poorly.
Speaker 1:
Trump's defense is well. There were basically a handful of pillars of defense and they're all being whittled away by all of the moves and the fact that Trump was well aware, even signed off on them, and I don't think the prosecution is going to have a difficult time proving that. That was actually the easiest part of the case to prove, and you know, I had noted this before this got started. Like, proving the fraud was the easy part. The difficult part would be proving the motive and then the felony. That bootstraps the misdemeanor charges up to felonies. That would be more difficult to prove and the prosecution started off bootstrapping the misdemeanors up to felonies. They got the hard part out of the way first and now they only got to basically prove some paperwork.
Speaker 3:
I mean I guess it doesn't matter to his, his base or even a lot of just people getting sucked into the bullshit rhetoric being spouted on fox news etc. That all they do is discredit this as a witch hunt and then people can still watch this and come away thinking like witch hunt. I mean, ty was telling me about somebody watching Fox News in her presence and they're ready to. People are eating it up that this, that this is a lawsuit to be discredited and it's a witch hunt. So that's all the defense they need. He's only trying to win the court of public opinion at this point.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and since his position is indefensible.
Speaker 1:
I mean, it's wild too, because so a number of his potential. Vp picks a number of his potential VP picks have been making the rounds this weekend on on the news shows like meet the press and such, and a lot of them are being asked about will they still support him if he's convicted, in this case? And they won't even really answer and they're basically saying that this is a witch hunt by the biden administration. Like president biden, don't appoint the manhattan. Da alvin bragg was elected. Like this is a local prosecution.
Speaker 2:
And then they were also that, but it's been going on since 2019 or well even prior with sy vance, so it's not like it just popped out of in 2022, 2023, or this year.
Speaker 1:
Right Like again. They typically make these arguments about how this was intended to interfere with the election. Absolutely not. Like you said, this was up and running. This investigation was up and running in Manhattan as early as 2019. And the part of the reason that DOJ didn't indict him is because Bill Barr stepped in and personally intervened in the Southern District of New York to make sure this investigation didn't go after Trump in any way whatsoever. So, like, all those complaints are just nonsense. It's empty words as far as I'm concerned. Uh, and the reason why this took so long in the first place to get off the ground in manhattan da? Part of the problem is when bill barr intervened, not only did he try and get the sdny to lay off, he, he was also telling the manhattan da's office that sd sdny's got, so he was pulling that bait and switch, slash, catch and kill strategy.
Speaker 3:
Look over here.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, playing a shell game with a potential Trump prosecution. I hate that guy and the news networks keep having that motherfucker on for commentary, especially about this particular case. Like they can eat a dick for commentary, especially about this particular case.
Speaker 3:
Like they can eat a dick, they can eat a gigantic, rotten, monstrous donkey dick, but not his, because it just doesn't fit the bill.
Speaker 1:
No, not in that regard, but no, yeah, back to Todd Blanche here. Just man, how far this dude has fallen just to go from having your reputation be perceived as a very competent and talented lawyer to this nonsense like I can't imagine. I don't understand why so many lawyers throw away their careers, have you guys? Have you guys ever, like just sat and taken note of the number of lawyers in Trump's orbit that have been arrested or disbarred?
Speaker 3:
Most of them Right, that's what I when you were talking about. They don't get paid, but they also get. They end up getting sanctioned in disciplinary hearings brought against them. Oh my God, I'm so stuffy, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:
You poor baby. Do we need to get you some nasal spray? I have a cold too. It's been kicking my ass all week, but I've been toughening it out. It's that time of year. I don't know if people out there listening have gotten your flu shots, but go ahead and do that and your COVID shot. If people out there listening have gotten your flu shots, go ahead and do that and your COVID shot, just in case you do get a case of the stuffies. That you know is not something more serious. I guess to some degree, even if you do get the stuffies, it could still be COVID if you had your vaccine. Go ahead and take that test real quick while you're at it.
Speaker 1:
Positive's not good, it's not like a pregnancy test where you get to celebrate after um definitely not testing for covid or the flu you don't, you don't want to know if you have it I don't see how that would benefit me if you don't test.
Speaker 2:
It doesn't exist, right? I mean trump said it.
Speaker 1:
So, yeah, right, okay, trump Trump said it yeah, right, okay, trump, if he said it, it's got to be real.
Speaker 3:
Testing is the first step toward having COVID.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, if we test, our numbers will go up.
Speaker 2:
Testing is the first step to getting it.
Speaker 3:
I mean there aren't even isolation procedures anymore. I mean, it's very lax.
Speaker 1:
Oh man, what's the point of? Oh man when the CDC will lower their guidelines for isolation. After testing positive for COVID to zero days, I was like man, this shit here Now it's just the cold or the flu. But really what the CDC is saying, considering the fact that so many Americans have been vaccinated, that largely for the vaccinated crowd it typically is like the flu?
Speaker 2:
Anyway, I don't know those comments and they say things like oh, you got the jab, you got the vaccine, oh, but you still got COVID. Nobody said that getting the vaccine would keep you from getting COVID, but it reduced your chances of fucking dying from COVID. That was the point to keep you fucking alive, not? Yeah, you might get it, but it's going to be milder. But well, in fairness, so you're not going to die.
Speaker 3:
They did at first say that we would get COVID.
Speaker 1:
Well, there's efficacy rates, for a reason right. So with the original variant that was most predominant in the United States, the COVID vaccine actually was so effective against the original variant that you probably wouldn't get sick. In fact, the vaccine killed off the original couple of variants. And the thing is, the COVID virus has evolved so many times that it's now a more.
Speaker 2:
But why do we have variants? Because people wouldn't take the fucking vaccine.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, exactly, carol, and it's like oh, I guess they would have come from other places in the world though eventually, because other places didn't have the access to the vaccines that the United States did.
Speaker 1:
These current versions and variants of the COVID virus. They're more easily transmissible and can result in more severe symptoms. So the fact that the vaccine is holding up this well actually says a lot about how effective the vaccine was in the first place. But yeah, I don't know how we devolved into that conversation Because I have a stuffy nose us in the first place. But yeah, I don't know how we devolved into that conversation we, because I have a stuffy nose oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:
Uh, we gotta get you some nasal spray or, you know some, some claritin or something to help you out with that.
Speaker 3:
It's indeed, but it's wearing off it's yeah, um, yeah, make sure you anyway, that's what that was definitely. Topic three make make sure you my nose and whether or not I have COVID.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, make sure you get some more. Take you some more D tonight, carol. So Also, there were a number of other events over the course of Trump's trial this week. I guess we can like run through a small handful of them. Run through a small handful of them.
Speaker 1:
So one of the witnesses that testified and that was called to testify by the prosecution was this banker, pharaoh. He was the one who set up the bank accounts for Michael Cohen and the name of that shell company that he used as essential consultants or something like that, which is just just what these names, these people, come up with. And he said there would have been additional due diligence by the banks that would have delayed or prevented the transaction If Farrow had known that it was the, the bank account was set up to engage in efforts to assist the campaign or that it was involved in hush money payments to a porn star because of quote reputational harm, right. So the fact that Cohen kind of misled the banker on the nature of these payments is part of the reason why Cohen was able to effectuate them in the first place. And the banker also walked through some records showing how Cohen took out a home equity loan and used the funds to transfer that hush money payment to Keith Davidson loan and use the funds to transfer that hush money payment to keith davidson uh, the lawyer that was representing stormy daniels and um he cohen set it up to look like a real estate transaction.
Speaker 1:
Uh, I would imagine as further means to make sure it didn't get flagged by the bank, because, again, the point was to make sure these payments didn't become public. If it gets flagged by the bank, that could create some issues and then the money doesn't go through and then the agreement's off. And this is, keep in mind, this is like a october, right before the election, and um farrell was also said, cohen was also a challenging client because of his desire to get things done so quickly. That's a direct quote. Cohen had also formed that shell company and created and funded a bank account and initiated the wire transfer all within like a handful of days and clearly that just shows like the sense of urgency to get this deal done and get this money out right before the election. So this idea that it was you know, these payments were meant to silence the woman that Trump had an affair with so his wife didn't find out that kind of tends to fall apart with the more evidence that's being presented in these trials.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and like just a long-standing evidence that he doesn't care about his wife. Years and years of very public behavior are we using the term wife loosely? Because she's legally his wife.
Speaker 1:
I mean yeah, and she is loose, um, but I mean, look, obviously trump didn't want his wife to know, but that's largely because he didn't want her to be a headache, but that wasn't his main concern okay, I I have issues with.
Speaker 2:
Do we really actually believe that melania is going out in the front lawn on in her fucking uh robe to pick up the morning paper?
Speaker 3:
not a thing robe that's not I know she's going down to get the paper from where don't they live in a hotel obviously trump.
Speaker 1:
trump didn't want her to know, but that wasn't his major concern and the fact that it wasn't his only concern really kind of eliminates that as a defense right, because you can have multiple motives. Um, also, prosecutors play a couple of clips of trump at a rally, one where he said I have no idea who these women are. I have no idea. And this was in 2016 where he was speaking about Stormy Daniels and Kieran McDougal and he went on to say quote whoever she is, wherever she comes from, do I need to do the Trump voice? Whoever she is, wherever she comes from, the story is a total fiction that 100% made up. They never happened. And he called the stories lies, totally invented fiction, and said that it's a total setup. And then there was another video that they showed that said all of these lies will be sued when the election is over. And then the last clip.
Speaker 3:
The lies will be sued.
Speaker 1:
Well, I mean you know, I'm sure he meant the lies will be sued over or he will be suing the liars.
Speaker 3:
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:
And in the final clip that they showed, trump called Michael Cohen a very good lawyer, which is just funny, because when Trump's doing when you're doing Trump's dirty work, he praises you, and the second you stop doing his dirty work, he trashes you. It's kind of an endless cycle of that. Also, man, trump ain't got no loyalty to nobody.
Speaker 2:
No matter how much dirt they do on his behalf. What is most telling is not the people Trump goes after, but those that he doesn't.
Speaker 1:
Right, david Pecker, for instance.
Speaker 2:
Like that, for that, for me, is more.
Speaker 1:
Hope Hicks is an example.
Speaker 2:
That is more, yeah, like the ones that he doesn't, because he picks and chooses who testifies against him or who says something contradictory or whatever. But there have been plenty of people who have said very not nice things, not complimentary things about him that he has never attacked.
Speaker 1:
that, to me, is where the story is uh, yeah, I mean obviously the people who have the most dirt on him. He's typically not going to attack because he don't want that.
Speaker 2:
Hey the trouble and exactly bingo, like that's. That's it, because then when he is completely silent because Michael Cohen, he goes all in. I haven't seen one post that David Picker, he'd be nobody without me, or he hasn't gone. You know, in his typical way of how he does go after people. And the same after Hope Hicks' testimony, he hasn't said the same thing. So it's like if you go back and you look at who he won't attack every person that has said something who he attacks and who he doesn't the real story is in who he doesn't attack.
Speaker 1:
Now granted, the gag order is in effect and the judge has been like hey, man, you step out of line anymore, dog, you might be headed to jail. And that has toned down some of trump's rhetoric, but normally he'll even still hint at at the testimony of witnesses.
Speaker 2:
The gag order has meant shit to him, like he's so attacking the judges so nine thousand dollars yeah, well look it's the justice we've all been waiting for, oh man I, I don't how's. How is he ever gonna pay that like that was okay? You guys are harsh.
Speaker 1:
You guys are shitting on that, but the judge even pointed out the fact that he was bound by the statutory limits of a thousand dollars for each instance of the violation, and that's why he noted if Trump keeps going on, he's going to have to lock him up because he don't have no other options, and it has cooled Trump's behavior while Trump still is, you know, look, he's a habitual line stepper, but it's calming him down. He's not totally off the rails like he was a couple of weeks ago, but, yes, he is still attacking the judge's daughter, which is insane. Like bro, what the fuck are you thinking? But yeah, the Trump picks and chooses who he attacks and who he doesn't. It's very interesting. I can only imagine what you could possibly infer from that.
Speaker 1:
But prosecutor prosecutors also called Keith Davidson, the lawyer for the two ladies here, testify on the stand, and one of the things that they noted were some texts between Dylan Howard and Keith Davidson, dylan Howard being the editor at the National Enquirer. So these June 2016 texts say quote I have a blockbuster Trump story and that was one text and he was talking about. Well, quote, talk first thing, as in the morning, I will get you more than anyone for it. You know why. And then this is Howard. Did he cheat on Melania? Do you know if the affair was during his marriage to Melania? I really cannot say yet. Sorry, that was Howard Rather. That was Davidson. Ok, keep me informed. Howard texted. He then flew out to meet McDougal and Davidson in person to discuss the allegations and a friend of the models was also present at the time and then later Davidson texted Howard it's a story that should be told. And Howard replied I agree. And then that was in june of 2016.
Speaker 1:
And then the next month, in july, howard was texting asking to speak to trump, saying that he thought he had an entire, or rather an entree to pitch the story again in another message davidson wrote to howard quote don't forget about cohen. Time is of the essence. The girl is being cornered by the estrogen mafia. And yeah, I know, and the attorney was like davidson here was like he. It was a regrettable, regrettable phrase, obviously. Um, he also said a quote. That was a term I think came from one of karen's associates. At that first meeting, there were several women who were leaning on karen to sign a deal with abc and he was saying was saying that McDougal was rumored to be mauling an appearance on Dancing with the Stars because she was trying to reinvigorate her career. And when Howard told him, to quote get me a price on McDougal, davidson initially came back with a whopping price tag of $1 million. Ty, you know we on camera no.
Speaker 3:
And then I did not. That's why I was just mouthing where the fuck is ty yeah you totally forgot about that.
Speaker 1:
Huh, uh, so it's okay, keith davidson said I'm so sorry guys no, it's okay, I was just was just teasing, but Keith Davidson said that an attorney for AMI asked him to reach out to Cohen, but he didn't want to do so because the past experience is talking to Trump's attorney, which he described is not pleasant or constructive. Davidson did end up calling Cohen because he understood that the deal would benefit Cohen's client, and that is Trump. Trump, however, wasn't named on the paperwork, obviously because they went to such an extreme degree to keep his name off these documents. But AMI did eventually pay Davidson the sum of money for Karen McDougal's story and then Davidson texted Howard after the fact, glad it's all sorted. And Howard replied fucking Jesus. So I mean, that kind of shows you the extent of the relationship between Michael Cohen and AMI in getting this deal done to silence Karen McDougal, which again it just highlights the nature of the illegal plot to keep these women from going public before the election.
Speaker 2:
Ty, you missed a lot there, it's okay what, you know what, and I'm just going to be honest about what up?
Speaker 2:
yo, oh, I'm sorry, what, what up? Yo, okay, no, I was going to say, but just to be honest about this, when I look back at it and just seeing how sycophantic that the MAGA cult is, I honestly don't think that he really had to go to these lengths. The people that followed him, the people that supported him and voted for him, I don't think it would have mattered in the end. No, you say that now wait no, no, no.
Speaker 1:
You say that now but you gotta go back in time to 2016. Uh, it wasn't like this. People weren't, like pot, committed to the idea of Trump support, no matter what. And everyone talks about this, even Hope Hicks does in her testimony about how that Access Hollywood tape really threw the campaign for a loop. Everybody was just on edge after that because they knew the campaign was probably sunk, probably suck um, like there was even talks at the rnc about, uh, pulling trump off the ballot and having him replaced. That's how serious it was at that time. And I know, look again, it's been fuck eight years ago now and we're like there's been so many developments that it's, at this point, like you just see, continued support of trump, no matter what. But it wasn't like that.
Speaker 1:
And I think what really highlights that is the fact that not only was that tape damaging to trump and the possibility of any other damaging information coming forward, possibly destroying his campaign and his chances to win. He really only survived the access hollywood tape because of wiki leaks, dumping, all of those emails and that story um being harped on and obsessed all over by the media for the next couple of weeks. Because I can tell you like. I remember when the access hollywood tape dropped I remember it because you know everybody I was talking to we were all making you know and this is inappropriate, but it wasn't in support of it. We were all making you know, grab them by the pussy jokes. But it was like because there's no way this dude is going to survive this tape, right? This is fucking crazy that he's on tape saying this out loud it's over. And then by the time we got to the next day, the only thing people were talking about on the news was Hillary Clinton's emails, and that wasn't possible without WikiLeaks.
Speaker 2:
See but that's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying is that his entire platform, his entire running for president was on banning Muslims and building a wall.
Speaker 1:
Well, that shit wasn't unpopular with the right, though that's what I'm saying, but this tape was but it was, it was he, it was enough and yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:
However, they got their saving grace, thanks to comey yeah, look, there was a yes, there was a lot of stuff but it wasn't because they really gave a shit about it, but because it gave them cover to do what they already wanted to do, which was vote for him regardless but that's what I'm saying, if, if these stories, wanted to vote for him regardless.
Speaker 1:
I understand, but I'm saying if these, yeah, if these stories had come out, it probably would have been the end of Trump's campaign. It was hanging by that much of a thread. And you say Trump won. I disagree, no, but you got to listen. Remember Trump lost 2016 by 3 million votes. He lost.
Speaker 2:
Yes, he lost the popular vote both times.
Speaker 1:
And if these stories had come out, he probably wouldn't have won the electoral college either, because he really only won. I don't, I honestly don't Well see you're thinking of Trump supporters, but you got to also think about but you, but you're only thinking about Trump supporters and you're not considering independent voters, independent voters who did vote for Trump, who wouldn't have had these stories come out.
Speaker 2:
I honestly and when I say this, I'm saying it looking back at the things that I hear people say and the arguments that they make I'm thinking in my mind.
Speaker 1:
I'm like you know what I honestly don't think that you would have voted any other way I I, for, I'm gonna die on this hill yeah, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one because I think about because people that it would have made a job but, like trump, lost by even a even larger margin in 2020 than he did in 2016, and that's what I'm saying had more damning information come out at the time, because it was october, it was right before the election. If, if comey hadn't made that statement and these stories would come out instead, I'm I'm telling you, he would never have been president.
Speaker 3:
But uh, so, chief davidson, you have a time machine I could borrow yeah, please, um what?
Speaker 1:
let's go back in time and make trump. Let's go back in time and make trump's mom swallow um. So davidson also linked that cash payment to the campaign and he had asked whether he had any understanding. He was asked whether he had any understanding as to why AMI would be purchasing purchasing the story from McDougal with no intention to print it. And David said he thought there were two reasons, two reasons Quote one explanation I was given was that they were trying to build Karen into a brand and didn't want to diminish her reputation, and the second was more of an unspoken understanding that there was a close affiliation between Pecker and Trump and AMI and AMI would not run that story because it would tend to hurt Donald Trump, and that's according to Davidson.
Speaker 1:
And asked whether he meant Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, davidson said yes, and then the contract between Karen McDougaldougall and ami was signed on aug, in august of 2016. So, like even davidson here is telling you hey, guys, like this probably would have been a severe blow to trump's campaign and we were going out of our way to make sure his campaign wasn't hurt by these stories. And again, davidson went on to highlight the damage of the access hollywood tape with the message that he read aloud in court that says trump is fucked. That was, those were davidson's exact words, and this was that they thought so this was howard.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, again, you know, there were another number of Never underestimate bigotry.
Speaker 2:
So many extenuating-.
Speaker 1:
Never underestimate bigotry, extenuating circumstances in 2016. But Howard replied to that text wave the white flag. It's over people. Both men, however, soon became involved in the deal to smother Stormy Daniel's story as well, the same way they did with McDougal. I mean, that was just so much like. One of the tags between davidson and howard at ami from a lecture night of 2016 was where um davidson texted howard quote what have we done? And then howard's response was oh my God.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's something I was just going to bring up right now and the following consequences and repercussions of what they were. They were entertaining him, you know they always had for years, but this shit got real, Like it got real.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, and again like maybe this wasn't necessarily the one thing that put Trump over the top, but Dylan Howard and Keith Davidson were well aware of how much their efforts affected the campaign.